The Civil Service Employees Association, the union representing the majority of city workers opposes the mayor’s plan.
County Waste & Recycling Service of Clifton Park will begin on Aug. 1.
At present, city residents must put out recyclables in separate containers AND THE CITY WORKERS PICK IT ALL UP UNDER THEIR CONTRACT.
Sottile said city workers freed up from collecting recyclables would be able to do other jobs, like collecting yard waste at the curb. He also said the city would use less fuel, and cut its truck maintenance costs.
The mayor said no employees would be laid off as a result of the move.
Troy Ashdown, a shop steward for the Civil Service Employees Association, promises that the union will file a grievance over the matter.
Under its contract with the union, Ashdown said, the city is not allowed to use other workers to do jobs that had been performed by employees who had been laid off in the Department of Public Works, unless the laid-off workers are paid.
“You can’t downsize your workforce and then privatize it or bring in cheap labor without benefits,” said Ashdown, who added that the provisions are spelled out in a contract agreed to by Sottile and the Common Council.
“The CSEA doesn’t run the day-to-day operations of the city, the administration does,” was Sottiles response.
Contract Law will decide this issue. Even a non-expert can agree that when you are a party to a contract - you cannot unilaterally change it - it doesn't work that way.
Alderman Charles Landi, D-Ward 3, said of Civil Service Employees Union “What goes around comes around,” and “This could be the tip of the privatization iceberg.”
Ashdown responded by saying the union is looking forward “to seeing Mr. Landi in court.”
The City of Kingston should either fire their attorney who is giving this mayor contract administration advice or spend the money to send Sottile to a class on contract law himself because this one is a loser for the mayor and his fellow anti-union blowhard and big mouth, Landi.
43 comments:
How do you bring in a private hauler without putting out an RFP. Oh that's right that's how Maxwells got the City property to use to no RFP. Common practice now in Kingston, must be the same for Riccardi's on 2nd avenue.
Mayor Sottile is probably the most anti-union Mayor that ever sat his fat ass in a chair up on City Hall hill!! The shame of it is, is that the aldermen enable him to continue to bring Kingston down a slippery slope and it is painful to watch! Landi is a total scumbag when it comes to unions,and that too is a shame because he was once a CSEA union president when he actually worked for a livin'. TSK,TSK. Alderman Reynolds has always claimed to be a union friendly guy, but i dont see it! He says that the Mayor is "on the right track". What the hell is this guy thinking?
The politicians in Kingston do not show any honor when it comes to thier word and signature. Why would any union trust these people if they can't honor simple contract language? Then they blame union leaders for fighting for thier members which is what they are supposed to do! Thank God we union members have arbitration, this will be a slam dunk for union members when the gavel comes down!
I just read in the Kingston Times that the Mayor of Kingston is attempting to fuck one of the city unions again! I quote "if I sit back and never make a decision because Im afraid some union is going to have a problem with it,the union leadership would float the boat into bankruptcy". This guy is a monumental asshole that has zero credibility when it comes to the contract law. Does anyone on that council know what this nut is getting the city into? Didn't he negotiate the contract with the unions?
Since when is Alderman Reynolds concened about the bidding process? The city of Kingston is notorious with not properly bidding out, all of a sudden this guy is concerned? If he will screw the workforce that he votes on contracts for, then he will screw any union that is out there. In fact, he has. Can anyone say KIRKLAND HOTEL??
The way I read this story in Freeman is that the Mayor did not brief his council before he even signed the contract with this private company. Does the council have a spine? why would they let this guy run amuck with city services unchecked? Furthermore,the Dpw dept. head Michael Schupp hasnt done much to help his guys either. I here the men think he is an asshole and the way he serves up his guys confirms that assessment.
There was one Kingston politico with honor. That was Rich Cahill. He always showed the union respect even when many of the CSEA workers signed a paper supporting Sottile.
We need to get Cahill to run again and get elected this time.
Mike Schupp just gave DPW men a speech saying I have got your back. Once again the man that TR Gallo ran out of town has lied to his workforce.
Schupp secretly met with this and other companies about contracting out this service. He's a scumbag. Nobody bought his story they all know he's nothing more than the Mayor's pup.
If the City has enough money to contract out this service and not lay off more employees, why can't they just hire the laid off workers back?
No wonder people are leaving this City in droves.
Bullhorner, bringing in private companies for trash pickup rarely works in a city. Dont the people realize that at first a lowball price will come in, and than further down the road the fees will steadily go UP! Usually rural areas are where private companies thrive.
I am not looking for a "i dont care how much" answer to the following question...but....
How much is County Waste charging the City of Kingston for this service?? Where is this money coming from?
The Mayor lays off 15 people...Now he wants to privatize sanitation... What an idiot... He does not care about the people it will affect. Love you too.
This Mayor and his puppy Schupp just don't seem to get it. They lay off 15 people and then whime about the work not getting done. Schupp is quoted saying "we can't get the work done because of the layoffs" So instead of going to bat for his department he secretly meets with companies to screw his employees.
Schupp kept the council in the dark about his plan, just like when he went to the bi-weekly pick up.
Schupp seems to be coming undone at DPW. His plans have blown up in his face and now he wants to give them to someone else. He is known as quitter when the going gets tough. Just like when TR Gallo threw him out of town years ago.
He wants his men to believe that we have the money to contract out but not to bring back there comrades who were laid off this year. The men are not buying his phoney speeches.
County Waste is not charging the City of Kingston anything for this pilot program, and there is no contract. People are only concerned with their own self interests, while the Mayor is concerned for the whole City. Wake up people, there is no money - and any money that there is comes from the taxpayers. Adapt to this new world or become extinct.
7:31 - yea its a new world but heres a news flash - nobody changed the laws that pertain to contract language in that world.
A contract is still binding - no matter how bad of a job you might have done negotiating it and how much regret you have after signing.
Wanna test it? Call your bank and tell them you came up with a new amount for your mortagage payment - $100.
Tell them that you are cutting back and its just too dam bad but thats all you are paying.
That'll work.
Many many banks are renegotiating mortgages with their customers, even though they have a binding contract. These are very tough times for everyone, and at the end of the day, the taxpayer pays all of the bills - even for union member that get paid for staying home or for doing nothing. The 10% unemployed will not have a lot of sympathy for you.
Hey Bullhorner The more I hear about this plan the I like it. Sottile says that the test plan is for 700 homes for 4 months. County Waste is quoted in the Kingston Times saying the test period is for 400 homes for 2 months.
Schupp and the Mayor have no idea what is going on. Are they sure its free? Or is there a clause in the contract they are not reading or just ignoring.
I hope the new council is'nt just going to sit on thier hands and let these two idiots cost us more money.
7;31, the mayor isn't concerned for the whole city, he is primarily concerned with union busting,come what may! The city tax payers are always caught in the middle with his antics. Bullhorner is right, the language in the contract is binding and legally must be honored even if the Mayor and council REGRET signing it. Not he, or anybody else for that matter, can unilaterally pick and choose what clause in contract we will honor or not. It doesn't work that way, and it can become costly to taxpayers when,as a city, you do not honor your contracts. Like it or not folks, that is business. I believe that when you give your word or sign your name, you honor that,period. From what I understand, CSEA has been sitting down with Aldermens Hayes Clemente, Andi Turco-Levin, and Jen Fuentes trying to come up with ideas that address the high costs of Health Insurance. Then, the Mayor pulls this shit, why would CSEA continue to sit down and try and help the city when thier being fucked from behind by the Mayor and Alderman Landi and Bill Reynolds??? Give me one good reason why they should continue when they DONT HAVE TO? Thier contract is in place for next year and a half...
9:53 am - The key word in your comment "renegotiate". That is the point you missed here - the bank has a contract and in order to change it they are "renegotiating" "talking" "meeting" .....not just changing it and saying too bad thats what I wanted to do.
9:53 am - The key word in your comment "renegotiate". That is the point you missed here - the bank has a contract and in order to change it they are "renegotiating" "talking" "meeting" .....not just changing it and saying too bad thats what I wanted to do.
11:34 you hit the nail on the head. Why should CSEA continue to talk with the City regarding health care. They are close to coming up with a plan to save the City thousands of dollars in insurance costs.
But the City cannot keep its word. Sottile, Schupp, Landi and Reynolds all seem to have a bone to pick with them. The new executive board is finding out the hard way just what ass holes Sottile and Schupp are. The new vice president was filling up his truck while his laborer was going to the bathroom. He was called in on the carpet by Schupp and Sottile for doing it in the middle of the day. Oh yeah did I mention it was just 2 days after he filed his first grievance.
These guys are scum bags and try to use fear and intimadation to control the workforce. Not working though Schupp is not a leader and everyone knows it.
3:58 but did u know that the vise president leaves the yard 30 minutes everyday and comes in early before his run gets done maybe thats why he got called to the office
Bulhorner do the home owners in Kingston really believe that any company is going to come to the City and pick up trash or anything else for FREE? The company is not going to pay for high price fuel and the wear-n-tear on their vehicles for nothing;they will do just what drug dealers do; give away the product a couple of times to get you hooked,then take you for everything you have;then have out on the street selling you body!! THE HOME OWNERS BETTER WAKE UP BEFORE IT IS TO LATE.
If I were CSEA, I wouldnt talk to ANY aldermen right now, they only lie and cheat and try to finagle what was hard earned at bargaining table over the years. CSEA is in the driver's seat right now, they have a contract that was signed and binded and quite frankly, do not owe anybody SHIT at this time! That asshole,anti-union Mayor is on his way out next year,just sit tight CSEA.
This grievance will be pushed through and placed as priority for arbitration. This matter could be settled as early as end of summer.Why would anyone NOT wanna be in a union? Thank God for our unions!
I have been viewing this blog for about 4 months and I have come to the conclusion that the Democratic Party in Kingston is not union friendly anymore. So why does your membership continually vote for the current powers that be who are in government? I would hope that you give support to a Republican candidate for the mayoral race. I think we could show that we honor contracts,keep a contractual agreement, would negotiate a fair new contract and have all things spelled out with a possible contingency plan for an economic fallout. I was once a democrat for 40 years, raised in a union family(teacher, pressman and glovemaker unions) and have switched parties this year based on what I see happening in the city. We need to mix up the representation in city government. Some democrats, some republicans and some independents. This would lessen the good ole' boy network and most important send a signal that we want term limits. Can't do your job? Throw them out!!! Term limits pretty much guarantees this. Just a thought......
Rich Cahill for Mayor!!!
Bulhorner do you know if it is true about the City of Kingston's contract with it's employees; that at the end of their contract and another one is not agreed upon, the last contract stands until a new deal is reached? Just something I heard some workers talking about. They said it is possible for them to get a 4% raise every year until a deal is negotiated and agreed upon.
I want my recyclables picked up in one cart as a single stream every week. Who wouldn't want that? The only thing that the union is concerned about is themselves - it is surely not concerned about what is best for the residents. Wake up union!!
Personally, I would forget about the 4% raise for unionworkers and concentrate on maintaining the employment ranks within the city. A raise will not go over well with Kingstonians. They are apt to be more concerned about maintaing staff in DPW to keep up with demands of DPW duties but if you mention raises, you are shooting yourself in the foot. No sense putting blood in the waters to circle the sharks...
12:06, those raises are coming by way of contract,period! Governor Patterson tried to pull that shit with CSEA union employees in Albany and a JUDGE told him pay up, the raises were fairly bargained for! The city workers dont make alot of money, so those raises are important to the workers. If some people dont like it, go join a union!
The Democratic Party in Kingston IS NOT UNION FRIENDLY,10:38. You are totally correct. I also agree that we need term limits. These bums need to go!
1:34. I would guess the next step would be to negotiate contracts with a shorter window if that is possible( only contracts every 1 or 2 years rather than a full mayoral tenure)
This would allow for emergencies in city budgets like the one we have now in Kingston and possibly save jobs without a "stone" on city government's back. As a Union member I would think you would also be in support of saving a fellow union members job if it meant no raise or very little raise? Or is it every man for himself? The recent layoffs at DPW should be your eye opener. 14 guys left without jobs. That to me is very disconcerting and I feel for those families.
8:02, dont blame the layoffs on the union or the workers that are covered under union. The culprit is a Mayor that was bent on revenge and a council that enabled him to do so. Nothing more and nothing less. Do you know why? Because CSEA had the balls to stand up to him and NOT open up thier contract. It is a poor practice when you start opening up contracts because some nutty politician holds a gun to your head and says "I will layoff your workers if you dont open your contract". CSEA didnt blink, because you must protect the integrity of contract or you will be opening up contracts every year for the administrations mismanagement. Now we are seeing the total stupidity of the layoffs because the remaining workers cant get the job done, and nobody knows that more than the council. Thier phones are ringing constantly from consituents for that reason. So dont blame the union if you are a member, that is what management wants. it is time for the council to grow some balls and admit they made a mistake and bring back some of those layed off workers so ther work can get done properly.
5:29, I agree totally. Let me elaborate a little more... the WRONG GROUP of employees were layed off! City hall in kingston is operated on a 30 hour week all summer long, why not year round? If you do that, you eliminate full time positions down to part time. But because some of the people working in cityhall are friends and family of administration, the council doesnt cut where it MAKES SENSE to cut! What idiot thought it was a good idea to cut a huge swath in your labor force that works out in the street? Oh thats right, LUMPY SOTTILE, the idiot who plays make believe I am a Mayor.
SO 5:29, if the CSEA is so powerful how come they weren't able to save the DPW's laid off employees? Where were they in your time of need? SO 14 people lost their livlihood defending the CSEA? Is that right? Are they helping them financially? I am not a union member so maybe I can't fully appreciate the ideology of your unions but I thought they were enacted to safeguard employees and keep them working? Would you be in favor of shorter contract years especially with such a volatile economy? I am not in favor of breaking contracts but something has to be done about municipalities who cannot afford the salaries/benefits negotiated previously. A four year contract is hard to swallow by taxpayers when sometimes month to month we see taxpayers losing their jobs and going into foreclosure. If people exit Kingston who will be left to pay your contracts? Can you understand my concern? If you are a member of the union, do you live in Kingston? Are you a homeowner? If you rent you too will eventually see the economic factors in place when your rent is raised to cover City expenses. So would you rather have a job with no raise or no job and try to live on unemployment. In days gone by you could expect to get another job with 60-90 days but we all know that is not happening in Ulster or surrounding counties. This is not meant to be critical of the Unions but rather a person trying to understand the dynamics.
5;29 is right, I am a csea employee and i for one,DO NOT want my contract opened. When you cave into threats by the front office, it is like negotiating with terrorists in a sense,right? Our country doesn't cave to threats even when our people are held hostage because we know once you cave in once, every terrorist group in the world will have at us!
Once again 5:29, the union is not responsible for layoffs in ANY municipality, the COMMON COUNCIL IS, ALONG WITH THE MAYOR!!!!!!! You want to learn about the dynamics? A union is in place to negotiate a contract thru the collective bargaining process ALONG WITH THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL.... you with me so far? Once that happens, the unions role is to make sure the contract is honored. When it is violated by THE MAYOR OR COUNCIL, then a grievance ensues and a process occurs to UPHOLD the contract! Furthermore, a union usually fights to ensure a safe work environment for its employees. Having said that, when budget times comes around and the mayor and common council decide to cut positions, there isn't much a union can do but point out whether or not it is good for the workload. In other words, management has the right to mis-manage. And boy, we have all had a seat, front and center, watching mismanagement by asshole Sottile and fucked up council! Sottile and the council chose to layoff DPW workers instead of Highly paid individuals, like, Community Development head Mike Murphy who basically gets paid a nice chunk to do absolutely nothing for our city. Have you seen any Economic Development lately? The reason this clown does not get laid off is because he is Sottile's drinking buddy and old school chum! Politics at it's best! How's that for dynamics!
7:31, I agree wholeheartedly with you regarding the sorry excuse of a person named M.Murphy. He is definitely someone living on the "dole" of City government plus that job could be done part time or combined with another dept. All the more reason to get a republican in place as Mayor because I could assure you not one of them would keep Murphy in his cushy job along with Finkle. A repub would clean house and get rid of deadwood at City Hall along with incompetent Schupp.I think the mayor's job needs someone who has worked in the private sector and that would just about eliminate the current administrations friends and family plan along with some democratic alderman.
(see, I am not against you, just starting a dialogue)You and I can agree on some issues. If city had not been mismanaged by the current administration the Union would not have been placed in a precarious way or used as a scapegoat. But since it has it will be up to the new Mayor and Union officials to get the best and fair contract for all. Do you agree? Would you go in with an open mind knowing the current economic climate most certainly will not be over by 2011?
Get a good contract in place so that we will not have these issues coming back to bite us in the ass while contract is in place. No longer could a Mayor feel entitled to break the rules because at that time he took an active part for all concerned.I also would suggest that the common council be a part of the process so that they would be well aware of consequences if contract is broken. No longer could they claim ignorance of what is stated. Landi would need to get stronger glasses if he is not voted out.
signed, 11:08
11:08,, I am feeling you...yes we do agree on some pertinent issues and open dialogue is always welcome. Please try and understand that we, as a union, have been lied to on many occasion by current administration. You know right now, we are currently sitting down with New Alderpeople Turco-Levin, Fuentes, and Clemente exchanging dialogue and ideas regarding a Healthcare package that would be less costly to the City as well as one that meets the needs of our members(CSEA). It is unfortunate that no one seems to talk about or acknowledge that we are trying to be reasonable in that area. This current Mayor, Schupp, Landi etc. all have cast iron resentment towards us, so we are always being villianized at every turn. Many of our employees live and pay taxes in kingston, and I ,for one, am saddened by the current state of the city I have lived my whole life. I believe if we can come together as working people and taxpayers and politicians that can be TRUSTED, we could solve some problems WE ALL ARE SUFFERING FROM. To be continued...
I have said all along that the city unions hold the key to resolving some of our most significant challenges because they do the work every day. The city unions are to be commended for leading the way on the health benefits committee, particularly CSEA who has dedicated a full-time health benefits analyst to the process of identifying cost savings measures while maintaining quality coverage. Representing thousands of employees in municipalities across the state, CSEA has outstanding ideas to lend to the discussion based on experience. I am excited for the excellent dialog that has begun and have no doubt we will identify some good policy proposals for the council and administration to consider.
As for the recycling proposal, the Common Council received one email from the mayor with no follow up. There are many questions left to be answered.
Alderman Jen Fuentes
Ward 5
Thanks Jen, for the recognition. You and I have worked on several campaigns together, and although we have not always seen eye to eye on some issues, we have one strong bond... we are UNIONISTS. We have ALWAYS been open to dialogue, yet we have been decieved, lied to, and betrayed by Mayor and some members of this Administration on many occasion. I understand the union presidents are all sitting down coupled with yourself and colleagues, but i want to make sure that nothing is agreed to without review and vote by MEMBERSHIP. Our benefits are what keep us hanging around these jobs, we dont make alot of money, regardless of what the public thinks. To be continued... signed 9:18
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